Interviewing The Interviewer
Interviewing the Interviewer – a chat with Natasha Mitchell
Friday, 29 June 2007
Responder Interview by Dr Bianca Felix
You never know who you will bump into at Congress!
I found myself in a room observing an interview conducted by Natasha Mitchell, the presenter of ABC Radio National’s program All In The Mind. Readers of The Responder should be familiar with the program, as it often features in the Forum area dedicated to “Psychiatry in the Lay Press”.
Natasha kindly consented to change seats, and answer a few questions for The Responder.
Natasha, could you briefly tell us your background, and how you came to All in the Mind?
My background comes as a surprise to some, who assume I trained in neuroscience, medicine or psychology. I have a first class honours degree in engineering, and went on to start a PhD in (metallurgical/materials) engineering. But an interest in radio got in the way and I did a postgraduate diploma in science communication instead. The engineering hasn’t gone to waste – it’s helped me tremendously in the wide reading of scientific literature that the job demands. No subject intimidates me after surviving engineering! I joined the ABC 10 years ago as a science journalist, and initiated All in the Mind in 2002 because of passion for the interdisciplinary play-space that is the mind. I also have an interest in promoting critical discussion about matters of mental health and wellbeing.
You have been with All in the Mind for five years now - what keeps you interested?
Everything! The program really brings together my interests - and those of ABC Radio National listeners - in science, art, technology, health and culture. One week I might be making a documentary about the psychology of child soldiers in Uganda, the next week might involve recording brain surgery for broadcast, or delving into the philosophical underpinnings of the materialist view of the mind, or perhaps presenting new research on the OCD. It really is impossible to be bored (The long hours and relentless deadlines can get pretty uninteresting though!). I can imagine it’s the same for psychiatrists– the human mind is such an extraordinary and perplexing place to work within.
Who is the most interesting person you have interviewed? Why?
That’s a tricky one. I’ve had the delight of interviewing the world’s greatest thinkers in their fields – guests like Harvard psychologist Jerome Kagan, philosopher Dan Dennett, amongst others. Perhaps the most private and personal tales are the most memorable though. Recently I made a show focused on the grief of a mother whose daughter survived an aggressive, recurring brain tumour for 8 years before dying at age 32. To work with the mother in the telling of her daughter’s story through poems, performance and music was a very moving and revelatory process in many ways. It’s impossible to single out specific stories – but UK philosopher Andy Clark was also a fascinating interview that has stuck with me. He has this theory that our mind extends beyond the ‘ancient skinbag’ of our body into the world around us, through our ‘cognitive coupling’ with tools like pens, computers, maps. He presents a powerful thesis, with fascinating implications for how we perceive ourselves.
What has been the most difficult or controversial topic you have covered?
All topics are difficult to do full justice to in a half hour weekly show. But one of the more sensitive themes to cover is the politics and practices surrounding medication use, marketing and prescription. For example, I hosted a public debate on antidepressants and risk in Perth a few years back. My guests on the podium were Dr David Healy and Professor Ian Hickie, amongst others. It was a delicate and emotional issue to mediate a live discussion about. That said, we need to (responsibly) raise difficult questions about difficult issues in the mental health arena, and to encourage listeners to become literate in assessing the voracity of scientific evidence for themselves. No issue should be considered untouchable. Science journalists do have particular responsibilities to consider the implications of how these issues are raised and framed though.
There have been many programs in the last five years, trying to educate the public a bit more about mental health issues. From your experience, do you think they have had any effect?
McDonald?
I understand that you were once a guest speaker at a dinner for psychiatrists – what was that experience like?
That was the RANZCP NSW Branch dinner last year. I spoke about the rich history of our use of metaphors of the mind – “a blooming buzzing confusion”; a “treasure trove”; a computer; a “Blank Slate”. Metaphors inspire possibilities, but I also emphasised that psychiatrists have a important role in advocating publicly for the mental health of the most marginalised – and in this role, straight talking not flowery metaphor, is essential.
All in the Mind is partnered with The Philosopher’s Zone. Was that a deliberate programming decision? If yes, could you elaborate a little about it?
Well, we’re both focused on our organ of thought. All in the Mind has always engaged with philosophy of mind themes, which is also a special interest of presenter Alan Saunders, who has a PhD in philosophy (most people know him as a food writer and broadcaster, but this is a man of multiple talents!). So, Saturday afternoons from midday on ABC Radio National link The Science Show (with Robyn Williams), All in the Mind (1pm) and The Philosopher’s Zone (1.30). The cerebral synergies of the shows make them natural partners on air, plus we’re all based in the ABC’s Science Unit.
Psychiatrists and journalists are both trained to interview - it is their basic professional tool. Do you think the two professions could learn from each other?
Possibly yes. The art of a good interview translates into so many settings. A good interview can excavate meaning, stories, intentions, ideas in such powerful ways. Interviews for radio and in a clinical or practice setting can have common goals. We’re each trying to engage with a guest or patient, to make them comfortable, and to artfully extract their story to work with. That said, in radio we always have a wider audience in mind, and we’re constantly helping and challenging our guests to translate their story in a way that includes the audience. That 3rd party, the eavesdropping listener, is everything.
You are here for all of Congress. Can you describe what it is like for a layperson to be surrounded by over one thousand shrinks?!
Yes, it can feel rather unusual being the only journalist present for the whole RANZCP conference each year. My role is partly to get psychiatrists talking about themselves and the issues they work with. Always interesting, and sometimes cathartic for psychiatrists too perhaps, given that your day job is focused on getting others to talk about themselves. Connections and contacts made through the conference have resulted in some excellent projects for All in the Mind. For example, meeting Jim Crowe of the World Fellowship for Schizophrenia 5 years ago, triggered a 4 part radio series on mental health in India.
Finally, you have had the opportunity to meet with many distinguished therapists, and professionals engaged with The Mind. What are the qualities that have impressed you the most, that you feel up-and-coming psychiatrists should try to emulate and incorporate in their practice?
I’d encourage up-and-coming psychiatrists to read as widely as possible about the mind, across as many disciplines as they can, both now and right throughout their career. Read outside your comfort zone and beyond the more medical and medicalised models of the mind. Cognitive science, religion, philosophy, psychology, sociology, technology, artificial intelligence are all rich for the picking. Read about the history of your profession, and read critically.
The most interesting and interested psychiatrists I have met look beyond their own practice, ever searching for different ways to think about what they do, and challenge how they think about their patient’s dilemmas. To see every mental health problem through the exclusive lens of medicine definitely has its limitations.
Thanks for the opportunity to respond to The Responder!
Thank you Natasha. You make a gracious and informative interviewee. Keep up the good work!
All in the Mind is broadcast on ABC Radio National, Saturdays 1pm and repeated Mondays 1pm. More information, audio and a full archive of transcripts are athttp://abc.net.auallinthemind