Barry Jonsberg
Interview with Barry Jonsberg
Friday, 29 September 2006
Barry Jonsberg is an English teacher, living in Darwin, who has written three books in the past 2-3 years, for the teenage audience.
The first two books are narrated by a teenage girl, called Calma. While the books contain a lot of humour, they also deal with some tough issues. (Warning: plot spoiler ahead…) The first book, in particular, packs a punch as the main character dies part of the way through. The second book is, perhaps, a more ‘typical” teenage book.
Jonsberg’s third novel, , is quite different – it follows a young man’s descent into psychosis. Although already, in his second book, Jonsberg also touches on mental health issues (one character engages in Deliberate Self Harm).
So who is Barry Jonsberg and what does he have to say about writing, young people, and mental health?
Q: Where did you get the idea for Dreamrider? What prompted you to incorporate mental illness intoDreamrider?
BJ: As with all my novels, Dreamrider started with a very small idea. I remembered a teachingcolleague,about twenty years ago, who had bought an electronic device to help him lucid dream. At that time, I had no idea what lucid dreaming was and he explained it to me. For some reason this colleague sprang to mind a couple of years ago and I thought it would be fun to write a story about lucid dreaming [particularly since I don’t know of another book for Young Adults on the subject]. I didn’t intend to write a book about bullying or mental illness, but the book had other ideas! It invariably happens like this; characters and the stories in which they take shape have a worrying tendency to develop in ways almost outside my control.
I think my thought processes involving Dreamrider went like this – Michael, the main character, was an expert at lucid dreaming and wanted to spend more and more of his time in a wonderful dream world of his own construction. But what was so especially appealing about a constructed reality? The obvious answer, it seemed to me, was that the real world was inadequate in some ways. Maybe seriously inadequate in many ways. In fact, it occurred to me that Michael’s real world was so awful that it would be inevitable for him to develop a strategy that allowed him to leave it whenever he wished. “It’s better than reality,” he says at some point in the book. “Reality is overrated.” So, what would be so bad about the real world? The weight issues, the bullying, the unresolved issues regarding his mother’s death, the dire home life with a sick father – all of Michael’s problems seemed to pile up, one after the other. And now I found I wasn’t writing a book about lucid dreaming at all. I was writing a book about loneliness [I still think if one is to categorise Dreamrider, it would be a book about the appalling consequences and the damage that loneliness can inflict, particularly on the young. Only when I finished the book, did I realise that Michael actually spends virtually no time in contact with anyone supportive. On re-reading the book, it becomes apparent that Michael spends 99% of his time alone.] And if someone is so lonely, if life is so miserable, wouldn’t it be logical to create a better life, some friends or, at least, people with whom he could interact? In the first draft Mary was real. In the second she became imaginary because she is exactly the kind of supportive person that someone with Michael’s imagination would construct.So, I didn’t really incorporate mental illness into the story. It became an inevitable consequence of how my character developed. I wanted to write a fun story about dreaming. It just didn’t turn out that way!
Q: Did you deliberately choose to address mental health issues in your books? Or did it follownaturally with the subject matter?
BJ: In many ways, I’ve answered this in my very long-winded response to the first question! I don’tthinkwriters often choose issues to write about. And, if they do, I don’t think they should. I can’t imagine thinking, “I would like to write a book about anorexia. Now, how can I bring this in?” It may happen that a character or a situation [or both] suddenly appear in your head and you want to write about them. As the character starts to develop within the imagination, there might well be problems uncovered within that character. In fact, it’s almost inevitable, isn’t it? I don’t know too many real people who don’t have problems – some of them pretty serious, as far as I can tell. Given that all characters should be flawed, since all people are flawed, then inevitably “issues” will follow.But it must be that way around: the character determines the issue, rather than the issue determining character. My audience, young people, can spot that in a flash – when a writer is preaching about an issue, rather than telling a story. Story always, always comes first.
Q: Do you see a lot of mental health problems in the classroom? How alert are teachers to theproblem?
BJ: Unfortunately, yes. Of course, “mental health problems” as a phrase, covers an enormous amount ofground. I, personally, have dealt with a couple of students with Asperger’s syndrome [now re-classified as being part of the autism continuum?], one of whom routinely threatened to kill me in fairly gruesome ways. Most teachers are very familiar with students who have severe anger management problems, who cannot communicate in effective ways with peers or with those in authority, who have severe and not-so-severe learning difficulties, who have problems with self-image, drug and alcohol dependency, sexual abuse at home, sexual awareness or sexual orientation. The list is almost endless.
And are teachers alert to the problem? Absolutely. Dealing with those problems is part of the core business of teaching. No wonder so many teachers have their own problems…
Q: Did you choose to teach teenagers, or did you fall into teaching that age group? If you chose it,why?
BJ: In the UK I was an English lecturer. I taught mainly 16-18 year olds [and adults] who wereacademically gifted and motivated. When I came to Australia in 1999 I taught in a high school for the first time. It was a shock to the system! Although I had taught for twenty one years I really had to learn how to teach all over again. And it was great! For one thing it has provided me with plenty of material for my writing, but I have also genuinely enjoyed the experience of teaching those who are reluctant and disengaged from school. It’s easy enough lecturing about Hamlet to those who are passionate about English literature. It’s rather different getting a story out of someone who can barely write. And infinitely more rewarding.
Q: Many doctors, including psychiatrists, are very reluctant to deal with teenagers. Do you have anyadvice on how to successfully engage a 14 or 15 year old?
BJ: Don’t try to “engage” them at all. Kids spot adults who are trying to engage. Talk to themnormally,never talk down, be genuine and interested in them, if possible [but never fake it]. Be aware that they have a lifestyle and a set of values that is almost certainly different from your own, but not necessarily inferior. I’ve had most success in dealing with troubled adolescents when I’ve got them to educate me about something that they have expertise in. Everyone likes to show what they can do well and nearly everyone likes to teach others.And how cool is it to be giving advice to psychiatrists on how to relate to people?
Q: There are several Australian English teachers (!) who have successfully written for teenagers, mostnotably John Marsden and Melina Marchetta. What do you think it is about this milieu that inspires the desire to write?
BJ: John has actually gone back to full-time teaching [almost]. He told me it was always his firstlove. Melina, I think, became a teacher after she was a writer.There’s an awful lot of frustrated writers amongst English teachers. Maybe it’s years of teaching some fairly shoddy books where you think “I can write better stuff than this!” Maybe it’s just love of reading and writing [and if you don’t, why are you an English teacher in the first place?]. Many writers who were also English teachers are also writers for Young Adults [and the two you mention are amongst the finest in the genre]. They know kids. They know, pretty much, what kids would like to read. But, more than anything, they like kids. I think you’ve got to like kids to be successful writing for them and about them.
Q: I was intrigued to read you mention that your wife Nita “deals with adolescents”. Are you able todiscuss what she does, and if that has any influence on your writing?
BJ: Nita is Head of Senior School in a high school that is about to lose its senior school. This putsher in an interesting situation regarding employment next academic year!
When we came to Australia we were both English teachers, in the same school, with adjoining desks. Since then, our career paths have diverged somewhat [though she is the first reader of my books and writes the teachers’ notes for Allen & Unwin]. From my point of view, Nita’s experience with adolescents makes her an ideal person to check my writing throughout all stages of development. From her point of view, my teaching experience means that I understand exactly how frustrating her job can be sometimes!
Q: What do you consider yourself first: a teacher? Or a writer?
BJ: I am now a writer first and foremost. I do relief teaching [or substitute teaching as it is knowninsome states] a couple of days a week, but the rest of the time I write. Teaching keeps me in contact with kids and helps with money, but I’ve done it for too long. Twenty five years in all. It’s a young person’s game, really. Or it should be.
Q: There are a number of budding writers amongst the Responder readers – do you have any advice abouthow to combine one’s paid profession and the dream to write?
BJ: Forget about being a ‘budding’ writer. You are either a writer or not. I still remember beingintroduced to a teacher who said, “Oh, yes. You are a budding writer, aren’t you?” I wanted to say, “Are you a budding teacher? A budding human being?” I do think this is really important. A writer is someone who writes. It’s a proud occupation and anyone can do it [though maybe not all can get paid to do it]. So, say it with pride: I am a writer.And then write, of course. Many forget to do this. Spend as much time in front of your computer [or pad of paper] as you can. Try to do it every day and feel guilty if you don’t. Find time for it. Combining writing and a full-time job is not that difficult. I wrote three novels that way and I did it by finding time. Instead of watching something mindless on the television and calling it ‘my way of relaxing’ I wrote and it became my way of relaxing.Now it’s that and my way of earning a living. How good is that?
HAM